1 00:00:00,250 --> 00:00:02,870 We will ultimately make sure the vehicle is safe to fly crews. 2 00:00:02,870 --> 00:00:07,450 The difference is where we draw the line between us and the commercial partner. 3 00:00:07,450 --> 00:00:12,000 Commercial and government partnerships and contracts might not sound that fascinating, 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,240 but when we're talking about certifying Boeing Starliner to carry humans to space, the challenges 5 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:20,480 and complexities become a whole lot more interesting. 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:21,920 Next on the Rocket Ranch. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,840 EGS Program chief engineer verifying no constraints to launch. 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,800 Three, two, one, and lift off. 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:29,780 Welcome to space. 10 00:00:33,180 --> 00:00:37,230 We'll hear from the certification lead for Starliner in a few minutes, who is responsible 11 00:00:37,230 --> 00:00:40,030 for something called burning down paper. 12 00:00:40,030 --> 00:00:45,010 But, first up, we have Steve Payne, his job is to think through pretty much anything that 13 00:00:45,010 --> 00:00:49,969 can go wrong on launch day and how to make sure we respond to keep everything and everyone 14 00:00:49,969 --> 00:00:50,960 safe. 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,900 All right. I'm in the booth now with Steve Payne. 16 00:00:53,910 --> 00:00:55,530 Steve, thank you for joining me today. 17 00:00:55,530 --> 00:00:56,899 Hey, good afternoon. 18 00:00:56,899 --> 00:01:01,059 Steve, rumor has it that you are a big fan of model rockets, so you can't get enough of rockets 19 00:01:01,059 --> 00:01:03,910 during your day job, you have to go home and do it as well, is that true? 20 00:01:03,910 --> 00:01:05,480 That is a true statement. 21 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,630 I tend to get carried away with things you can put a rocket motor on. 22 00:01:08,630 --> 00:01:10,729 Whoa, wait a second. 23 00:01:10,729 --> 00:01:13,540 So, things you can put a rocket motor on. 24 00:01:13,540 --> 00:01:16,770 So, I believe, technically, the answer to that question is you can put a rocket motor 25 00:01:16,770 --> 00:01:18,070 on anything. 26 00:01:18,070 --> 00:01:19,070 Pretty much. 27 00:01:19,070 --> 00:01:20,990 Have you experimented with such things? 28 00:01:20,990 --> 00:01:29,340 Well, there is a room in my house with a boneyard of several things that I have put rocket motors 29 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:36,119 on and flown, from Crayon, piggy banks to rolled up cardboard tubes from the middle 30 00:01:36,119 --> 00:01:42,220 of gift wrapping paper and anything that you can make pointy and put fins on, that's around 31 00:01:42,220 --> 00:01:43,420 my house will fly. 32 00:01:43,420 --> 00:01:44,420 [ Laughs ] 33 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:49,940 I got -- couple of years ago, I was -- they asked me to build them a model rocket for 34 00:01:49,940 --> 00:01:51,700 display for an event at school. 35 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,210 It was a fundraiser. 36 00:01:54,210 --> 00:01:55,320 And so, I said, "Well, what do you want?” 37 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,320 They said, "Well, a big rocket. 38 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,320 You know, about your height and whatnot.” 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,100 So, I said, "Sure.” 40 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:07,810 And, well, several weeks later, I showed up with a 15-foot tall, two-scaled Saturn 1B 41 00:02:07,810 --> 00:02:08,810 rocket. 42 00:02:08,810 --> 00:02:09,810 [ Chuckles ] 43 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:10,810 [ Laughs ] Oh, man. 44 00:02:10,810 --> 00:02:11,810 Yeah. 45 00:02:11,810 --> 00:02:12,810 That's awesome. 46 00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:13,810 Yeah. 47 00:02:13,810 --> 00:02:14,810 So, they -- yeah, give me rocket, I get carried away. 48 00:02:14,810 --> 00:02:18,180 So, Steve, I've -- you're the kind of guy that I just ran into you all the time. 49 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:21,041 Like, I never know where I'm going to see you pop up but I see you all the time and 50 00:02:21,041 --> 00:02:23,230 it's a pleasure every time. 51 00:02:23,230 --> 00:02:26,480 Can you tell me, kind of, what your background is because I'm not even sure, because I've 52 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,370 seen you in so many different capacities here? 53 00:02:28,370 --> 00:02:30,400 Well, where do you want me to start? 54 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,370 Let's just say, what's your schooling been? 55 00:02:32,370 --> 00:02:34,180 What's your -- what are your degrees in or degree? 56 00:02:34,180 --> 00:02:35,180 All right. 57 00:02:35,180 --> 00:02:38,630 I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Syracuse. 58 00:02:38,630 --> 00:02:39,630 Okay. 59 00:02:39,630 --> 00:02:41,000 Where I spent many freezing years. 60 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,000 [ Laughs ] 61 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,480 After that, I joined the navy. 62 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:51,330 I was a navy pilot for a while after the Tomcat, the F-14 supersonic fighter bomber, did that 63 00:02:51,330 --> 00:02:52,610 for several years. 64 00:02:52,610 --> 00:02:58,150 And then, after I finished my active duty career, I came out to Kennedy Space Center 65 00:02:58,150 --> 00:03:02,270 and I started to work for one of our support contractors here, Lockheed Space Operations 66 00:03:02,270 --> 00:03:04,640 Company doing payload operations. 67 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,950 I used to load cargo into the shuttle's payload bay. 68 00:03:07,950 --> 00:03:10,080 Is that, like, you personally would be the one to, like— 69 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,080 I was the-- 70 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,080 --put things in? 71 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,080 --operations person. 72 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,080 No. 73 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,080 I wasn't the technicians. 74 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,080 We have technicians-- 75 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,080 Okay. 76 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,080 --to do all the turning of wrenches. 77 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,450 We have the engineers who develop the procedures and decide how much torque everything should 78 00:03:19,450 --> 00:03:20,450 have. 79 00:03:20,450 --> 00:03:24,670 And then, we have the operations folks, which is where my expertise lies primarily and it’s 80 00:03:24,670 --> 00:03:30,410 the person who makes sure that the people, the paper, the parts, the conditions, the 81 00:03:30,410 --> 00:03:36,239 schedules are all there so that it can gel and the operation can take place. 82 00:03:36,239 --> 00:03:40,340 And to grease the skids, make sure that if they have a hiccup of any sort, we're the 83 00:03:40,340 --> 00:03:44,090 trouble shooters who make sure that we overcome that hiccup and press on. 84 00:03:44,090 --> 00:03:48,989 That's, kind of, a good segue point, I think, because we're here today to talk about the 85 00:03:48,989 --> 00:03:55,650 Commercial Crew Program and specifically Boeing's upcoming orbital flight test with our Starliner 86 00:03:55,650 --> 00:03:57,120 CST-100. 87 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:03,560 And your role is actually, kind of, just that, of like, accounting for a day we hope never 88 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:04,700 comes. 89 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:05,700 That is-- 90 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:06,700 Is that a fair assessment? 91 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:07,700 That is a fair assessment. 92 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:08,700 It is like an insurance policy. 93 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:09,700 Uh-hmm. 94 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:12,340 It costs money and you resent having to pay it. 95 00:04:12,340 --> 00:04:13,440 [ Laughing ] 96 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,570 And for most of the time, you'll never need it, but the day that you do, you're-- 97 00:04:17,570 --> 00:04:18,699 It's worth every penny. 98 00:04:18,699 --> 00:04:19,699 Right. 99 00:04:19,699 --> 00:04:20,699 And-- 100 00:04:20,699 --> 00:04:21,699 Yeah. 101 00:04:21,699 --> 00:04:22,699 And if you don't have it, you'll wish you had. 102 00:04:22,699 --> 00:04:29,190 So, my job and it is sometimes unpopular is to point out where we are unprotected and 103 00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:33,440 what kinds of things we would need to do to be able to mitigate whatever hazard there 104 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,740 might be or respond to whatever emergency condition has taken place. 105 00:04:38,740 --> 00:04:47,070 And when things get ugly, I'm the guy that everybody looks at and says, "Steve, fix it.” 106 00:04:47,070 --> 00:04:48,070 [ Laughing ] 107 00:04:48,070 --> 00:04:52,780 So, I have to have a way to fix it and it involves quite a bit of planning upfront and 108 00:04:52,780 --> 00:04:58,720 setting up of structures, and teams, and mechanisms, and communications, and procedures so that 109 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,139 when you do need it, it works smoothly. 110 00:05:01,139 --> 00:05:03,080 So, what's your official title right now? 111 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,870 Just -- is it something cool like waste management specialist or is it like -- is it more engineering 112 00:05:06,870 --> 00:05:07,870 than that? 113 00:05:07,870 --> 00:05:08,870 No. 114 00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:10,190 It's, kind of, a prosaic term. 115 00:05:10,190 --> 00:05:12,889 I -- I'm a Launch Integration Manager. 116 00:05:12,889 --> 00:05:13,889 Okay. 117 00:05:13,889 --> 00:05:17,800 Which is the -- you know, that little fine print that says duties as assigned at the 118 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:18,979 end of your job description? 119 00:05:18,979 --> 00:05:19,979 Yeah. 120 00:05:19,979 --> 00:05:23,729 I think all of us have that somewhere in your job description and most of us know that it's, 121 00:05:23,729 --> 00:05:25,300 kind of, a catchall for stuff. 122 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:26,300 Yeah. 123 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:32,130 Well, that's 99.9% of my job is all that stuff because it doesn't belong to anybody else. 124 00:05:32,130 --> 00:05:37,520 We have engineers who are experts in a particular system and we have folks that are focused 125 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:38,830 on inflight stuff. 126 00:05:38,830 --> 00:05:44,400 We have folks that are focused on fueling the vehicle, folks that are focused on engines, 127 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,040 or focused on avionics or other such systems. 128 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:53,750 Somebody has to have a 10,000-foot view, see the combined picture, and put all the pieces 129 00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:54,750 together. 130 00:05:54,750 --> 00:05:57,360 That's what the integration part of the title is. 131 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,080 And if you start to think, if you were going to launch a rocket somewhere and you had -- starting 132 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,360 from a blank slate, what would you need? 133 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:05,360 Yeah. 134 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,360 Well, you will need a launch team. 135 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,470 I mean, other than a rocket, you need a launch team. 136 00:06:09,470 --> 00:06:10,470 Sure. 137 00:06:10,470 --> 00:06:13,440 So, in the early days of the program here, I was helping put up together the, "Who's 138 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,509 going to be on our launch team?” 139 00:06:14,509 --> 00:06:15,810 "What are they going to do?” 140 00:06:15,810 --> 00:06:16,810 "What are their functions?” 141 00:06:16,810 --> 00:06:20,360 "How do we plug in to the commercial provider's launch team?” 142 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,050 "What communications go back and forth?” 143 00:06:22,050 --> 00:06:23,199 "What channels do we need?” 144 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:24,789 "What infrastructure needs to be there?” 145 00:06:24,789 --> 00:06:26,380 "What control rooms are necessary?” 146 00:06:26,380 --> 00:06:31,389 So, all that had to be thought out and after much deliberation and back and forth, we came 147 00:06:31,389 --> 00:06:32,460 up with a plan. 148 00:06:32,460 --> 00:06:34,479 And so, we put all that in place. 149 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:40,669 Some of it is what are the operations that take place when the crew arrives on the center? 150 00:06:40,669 --> 00:06:44,509 Well, the crew officers focus on health stabilization. 151 00:06:44,509 --> 00:06:47,330 For example, they arrive seven days prior to launch. 152 00:06:47,330 --> 00:06:50,699 We don't want them getting sick before going up to the station, so there's all these involved 153 00:06:50,699 --> 00:06:54,610 procedures for making sure they don't get sick and take something up with them and make 154 00:06:54,610 --> 00:06:56,520 everybody on station sick. 155 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,200 So, we have to come up with a procedure for that. 156 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:05,660 Last time we looked at it, we had a space shuttle procedure from the 2011 timeframe 157 00:07:05,660 --> 00:07:10,650 and we had been using a procedure that worked in Russia, but we didn't have one for now 158 00:07:10,650 --> 00:07:11,650 for this program. 159 00:07:11,650 --> 00:07:12,650 Sure. 160 00:07:12,650 --> 00:07:15,150 That incorporated all those changes and all the international pieces. 161 00:07:15,150 --> 00:07:16,789 So, we have to go create a new one. 162 00:07:16,789 --> 00:07:18,400 So, it was integrating again. 163 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,400 "What do the Russians do?” 164 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,430 "What do the Japanese want?” 165 00:07:20,430 --> 00:07:22,520 "What are our European partners need?” 166 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,960 "What are our special situations here?” 167 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,220 We rewrote a new procedure, got it all partnered in and then, we have to go execute that. 168 00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:33,080 So, somebody had to integrate that story and then it ended up in my duties as assigned 169 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,410 bucket. 170 00:07:34,410 --> 00:07:35,750 Yeah. 171 00:07:35,750 --> 00:07:37,319 Things like emergency management. 172 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:42,910 If you're at the pad and something goes wrong, how do you get off that pad? 173 00:07:42,910 --> 00:07:45,990 Well, we have Emergency Egress Systems. 174 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:49,699 Somebody had to provide input as to this is what we need, this is how we're going to get 175 00:07:49,699 --> 00:07:53,840 out, this is acceptable, this is not acceptable. 176 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,210 And so, help the design of that. 177 00:07:55,210 --> 00:07:56,790 So, we influence the design of that. 178 00:07:56,790 --> 00:07:57,790 Okay. 179 00:07:57,790 --> 00:07:59,169 Once we get off the tower, then what? 180 00:07:59,169 --> 00:08:00,569 How do you get out of there? 181 00:08:00,569 --> 00:08:03,130 Well, we had to provide them with vehicles that were suitable. 182 00:08:03,130 --> 00:08:07,539 We procured armored vehicles and modified them so that the crew could get away safely. 183 00:08:07,539 --> 00:08:09,080 All right. 184 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,060 Now, once you've left, what happens if you're hurt? 185 00:08:12,060 --> 00:08:16,349 So, we had to come up with a medical team to go check them out and make sure that we 186 00:08:16,349 --> 00:08:18,930 can patch them if need be. 187 00:08:18,930 --> 00:08:22,861 If they have any propellants on them and they're contaminated, we need a decontamination team 188 00:08:22,861 --> 00:08:24,530 to go make sure that they're clean. 189 00:08:24,530 --> 00:08:25,759 If there-- 190 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:29,800 So, are you the guy that's thinking through all of these things? 191 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,340 Like, is that really role that-- 192 00:08:31,340 --> 00:08:32,340 That's my role-- 193 00:08:32,340 --> 00:08:34,849 --obviously you can't, like, do all these things on your own, the application of it 194 00:08:34,849 --> 00:08:38,279 but your job is to think through all of these minute detail. 195 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:39,839 And, some of them are — 196 00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:40,839 Correct. 197 00:08:40,839 --> 00:08:41,839 —not minute, but— 198 00:08:41,839 --> 00:08:42,839 Right. 199 00:08:42,839 --> 00:08:43,839 —you're the guy? 200 00:08:43,839 --> 00:08:44,839 Yeah. 201 00:08:44,839 --> 00:08:45,839 It's -- I'm the guy that points out, "Hey, you're gonna need this, and this, and this, 202 00:08:45,839 --> 00:08:46,839 and this, and this, and this.” 203 00:08:46,839 --> 00:08:48,470 And they say, "That's great, Steve, go make it so.” 204 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:49,470 [ Laughing ] 205 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:52,790 And I kick myself for opening my mouth so much. 206 00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:54,870 But I've -- we've gone and we've made it so. 207 00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:57,900 We've worried about the medevac and we found helicopter support. 208 00:08:57,900 --> 00:08:59,180 We've configured helicopters. 209 00:08:59,180 --> 00:09:00,860 We worried about medical support. 210 00:09:00,860 --> 00:09:04,519 We've contracted with outside entities to provide us medical support. 211 00:09:04,519 --> 00:09:06,130 We worried about decontamination. 212 00:09:06,130 --> 00:09:11,540 We worked with our KSC and Cape Canaveral Fire Teams to provide decontamination. 213 00:09:11,540 --> 00:09:13,140 And so on, and so on, and so forth. 214 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:14,140 Yup. 215 00:09:14,140 --> 00:09:16,830 Are you writing the procedures for these kinds of things or you just -- kind of, are you 216 00:09:16,830 --> 00:09:18,880 a part of a team that's writing the procedure for these? 217 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,730 I'm pulling together the team that's-- 218 00:09:20,730 --> 00:09:21,730 Okay. 219 00:09:21,730 --> 00:09:22,730 --writing the procedures. 220 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:27,480 We run our emergency escape and rescue working group where all the stuff is discussed. 221 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,470 And I'm the coach here and-- 222 00:09:29,470 --> 00:09:30,470 Okay. 223 00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:34,990 --provide guidance and make sure that everything that needs to be in place is there. 224 00:09:34,990 --> 00:09:41,089 And are you -- or I have this picture of you all, this team you, kind of, gathered together 225 00:09:41,089 --> 00:09:44,570 just sitting in a room with a giant white board thinking of, like, "What things can 226 00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:45,570 go wrong?” 227 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:49,230 And just, like, throw everything on a wall and then, go from there? 228 00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:52,620 Like, is that a fair picture or is there something more formal than that? 229 00:09:52,620 --> 00:09:55,220 There is a lot of what-iffing and-- 230 00:09:55,220 --> 00:09:56,220 Okay. 231 00:09:56,220 --> 00:09:57,750 And scenario development. 232 00:09:57,750 --> 00:10:02,870 If we have -- there are so many things that could go wrong if you let your imagination 233 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:03,870 run wild. 234 00:10:03,870 --> 00:10:04,870 Sure. 235 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:05,870 And we do because-- 236 00:10:05,870 --> 00:10:06,870 Yeah. 237 00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:09,070 --usually, life is more interesting than fiction. 238 00:10:09,070 --> 00:10:10,420 [ Laughs ] 239 00:10:10,420 --> 00:10:14,980 If you imagine a scenario, "Well, we had to leave the pad because bad weather was coming 240 00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:16,000 and so we had to leave.” 241 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,000 "Oh, okay.” 242 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 How do you handle that? 243 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:24,060 Or, "We had to leave the pad because something was starting to go wrong and we wanted to 244 00:10:24,060 --> 00:10:25,410 get out before it got bad.” 245 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:26,410 "Okay.” 246 00:10:26,410 --> 00:10:27,410 That's another response. 247 00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:30,760 Or, "We had to leave the pad because, hey, we're leaking fuel somewhere and we need to 248 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:31,760 get out of here.” 249 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:32,760 Sure. 250 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:33,760 So, that's another scenario. 251 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,529 Or -- then there's a really bad day, something went kablooey and we have to go get people 252 00:10:37,529 --> 00:10:38,529 up there. 253 00:10:38,529 --> 00:10:42,769 So, we had to put together a team to go get them up there and procedures for that. 254 00:10:42,769 --> 00:10:47,760 So, all these things are waiting in the wings to be called upon on launch day-- 255 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:48,760 Uh-hmm. 256 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:49,760 --should we need them. 257 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,589 And if anything goes wrong, we've got aces up our sleeve for all kinds of different scenario. 258 00:10:55,589 --> 00:11:02,870 You, kind of, talked about the interestingness of fiction versus reality. 259 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:08,089 Have you had any specific instances in the past that we've had a bad day or almost a 260 00:11:08,089 --> 00:11:12,670 really bad day and these kinds of -- you've been able to use these kinds of applications? 261 00:11:12,670 --> 00:11:15,220 Or is this all still been, like, very theoretical for your world? 262 00:11:15,220 --> 00:11:20,490 Well, we have a -- I've only really had issues during processing because, fortunately, we 263 00:11:20,490 --> 00:11:23,360 haven't had this happened to us during a launch countdown but-- 264 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:24,360 Cool. 265 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,460 --I used to work daily process in the space shuttles and we every now and again would 266 00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:30,240 have a fuel spill issue. 267 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:36,030 And we would find out that you can mechanize or make automatic all your response all you 268 00:11:36,030 --> 00:11:37,380 want but there's people involve. 269 00:11:37,380 --> 00:11:38,380 Yeah. 270 00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:41,649 And people respond differently than machinery. 271 00:11:41,649 --> 00:11:47,630 We had one case where technicians were working on some pipes that had contained hypergolic 272 00:11:47,630 --> 00:11:51,450 fuels, and they weren't drained completely. 273 00:11:51,450 --> 00:11:52,930 We expect them to be but they weren't. 274 00:11:52,930 --> 00:11:57,930 And so, one of the technicians got an amount of this fuel on them, and the procedure is 275 00:11:57,930 --> 00:11:59,790 you egress the facility. 276 00:11:59,790 --> 00:12:01,350 You go out the nearest exit door. 277 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:03,649 You go out to the safety wash shower. 278 00:12:03,649 --> 00:12:09,160 You strip down completely and you wash yourself so that you don't have chemicals on you. 279 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,230 Well, if you consider human nature-- 280 00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:12,230 Yeah. 281 00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:14,670 This shower is an open shower in the middle of the parking lot. 282 00:12:14,670 --> 00:12:15,670 Yeah. 283 00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:16,790 People don't want to strip down completely. 284 00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:17,790 Sure. 285 00:12:17,790 --> 00:12:18,790 We end up-- 286 00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:19,790 Well, and that's what's going through my head this time. 287 00:12:19,790 --> 00:12:22,270 I'm like, am I standing on the parking lot doing this right now? 288 00:12:22,270 --> 00:12:23,270 Right. 289 00:12:23,270 --> 00:12:26,589 So, he didn't and we ended up -- he was contaminated. 290 00:12:26,589 --> 00:12:29,040 The medical personnel that responded were contaminated. 291 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,040 The ambulance-- 292 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,040 Uh-hmm. 293 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,040 --I put him in were contaminated. 294 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,040 Uh-hmm. 295 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,040 When he got to the hospital, the hospital was contaminated. 296 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,040 Uh-hmm. 297 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,290 So, with one of those things, you integrate this and so we started providing modesty garments. 298 00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:40,290 Huh. 299 00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:42,550 So, that when you go out there and you strip down you have something to put on. 300 00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:43,550 Huh. 301 00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:44,610 You're not just standing out there… 302 00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:45,610 Yeah. 303 00:12:45,610 --> 00:12:50,110 And the human nature part is the part that most people forget. 304 00:12:50,110 --> 00:12:51,110 Right. 305 00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:53,480 Ironically, I think you're a hundred percent right. 306 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:54,480 Yeah. 307 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,470 So, when we try to design our systems and our responses that involve humans, we're trying 308 00:12:58,470 --> 00:13:01,630 to make them as simple as intuitive as possible-- 309 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:02,630 Uh-hmm. 310 00:13:02,630 --> 00:13:07,910 --so, that if you're in a panic, kind of, situation, you don't have to do much thinking. 311 00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:10,550 There's one or two steps and you're out of there. 312 00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:13,420 And that's how we try to design all our stuff. 313 00:13:13,420 --> 00:13:20,741 We had a -- when we have an escape vehicle that we parked at the base of the -- or near 314 00:13:20,741 --> 00:13:24,730 the perimeter of the -- of the launch pad, so that when the crew escape from the tower 315 00:13:24,730 --> 00:13:30,100 down a wire that's hanging down, they'll end up at this vehicle and they can hop in and 316 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:31,100 leave. 317 00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:33,540 Now, we've done it so that the vehicles are running. 318 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:36,480 We've done a checklist to make sure all the switches, and lights, and everything are the 319 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:37,480 way they should be. 320 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,320 All the sensor is on board or turned on. 321 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,320 Got you. 322 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,320 Everything is ready. 323 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:47,220 In theory, all you got to do is sit down, put it in drive and take off the parking brake. 324 00:13:47,220 --> 00:13:48,279 Two steps -- three. 325 00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:49,279 Sure. 326 00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:51,190 Well, we've had people screw that up. 327 00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:52,190 [ Laughing ] 328 00:13:52,190 --> 00:13:53,190 So-- 329 00:13:53,190 --> 00:13:54,190 Because adrenaline does weird things-- 330 00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:55,190 Adrenaline does-- 331 00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:56,190 --into our body. 332 00:13:56,190 --> 00:13:57,190 --weird things. 333 00:13:57,190 --> 00:13:58,190 You forget. 334 00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:59,190 You put it in gear, it's not moving. 335 00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:00,190 Why is it not moving? 336 00:14:00,190 --> 00:14:01,190 Oh, yeah, the parking brake. 337 00:14:01,190 --> 00:14:02,190 Yeah. 338 00:14:02,190 --> 00:14:03,820 So, we tried to simplify things down to the minimalist steps we can. 339 00:14:03,820 --> 00:14:04,820 Yeah. 340 00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:09,089 We put big placards on, do this, then do that, and we trained the crews so that they have 341 00:14:09,089 --> 00:14:10,089 that experience. 342 00:14:10,089 --> 00:14:14,360 So that if they can't remember, their buddy next to them can tell them what to do. 343 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,360 Uh-hmm. 344 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,290 So, there's a lot of that simplify, simplify, simplify. 345 00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:22,970 So, that it's human -- it's a second nature instead of allowing for people to mess it 346 00:14:22,970 --> 00:14:25,180 up because people mess things up. 347 00:14:25,180 --> 00:14:26,600 They forget. 348 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,500 So, that's a big piece of the gap. 349 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:30,500 Yeah. 350 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,899 As I think about, kind of, the launch day, typically, we have a launch manager, launch 351 00:14:32,899 --> 00:14:34,440 conductor, launch director, something like that. 352 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,380 So, assuming that, kind of, this bad day gets triggered. 353 00:14:37,380 --> 00:14:39,970 Obviously, that's, kind of, a broad statement of-- 354 00:14:39,970 --> 00:14:40,970 Uh-hmm. 355 00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:42,150 There's lots of things that I could mean. 356 00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:45,790 Is it -- does control, kind of, switch over to you at that point or does that person, 357 00:14:45,790 --> 00:14:50,130 kind of, maintain the conducting role through that procedure? 358 00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:54,290 Well, we are plugged into the commercial provider's launch team. 359 00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:57,190 They run the launch countdown because it's their rocket, their pad-- 360 00:14:57,190 --> 00:14:58,190 Yeah. 361 00:14:58,190 --> 00:14:59,190 --their procedure-- 362 00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:00,190 An important distinction. 363 00:15:00,190 --> 00:15:01,190 Right. 364 00:15:01,190 --> 00:15:03,370 And it's different than what it was for the old days when NASA ran everything. 365 00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:05,579 But we are plugged in as a part of the team. 366 00:15:05,579 --> 00:15:10,180 When they call for the pad -- for the crew or even the pad personnel who are out there 367 00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:13,699 that tell them get off the tower, it's dangerous, go escape. 368 00:15:13,699 --> 00:15:16,660 At that point, we go into gear and we deploy our team. 369 00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:19,320 We tell our medical folks to start rolling forward. 370 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,850 We tell our decontamination teams to go. 371 00:15:21,850 --> 00:15:25,170 We scramble our medevac helicopter so that they get in the air and start making their 372 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:26,630 way out there. 373 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:31,880 We coordinate with the launch conductor or launch director from the provider to count 374 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,540 heads, make sure we got everybody. 375 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:41,020 If not everybody got out, then we go send in pad rescue teams and recover whoever was 376 00:15:41,020 --> 00:15:42,020 left. 377 00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:46,170 Then, we got to go treat all those people and we got to package them and do all that, 378 00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:48,329 and then report back we got everybody. 379 00:15:48,329 --> 00:15:52,910 And pass the information to their companies because it's not just NASA now. 380 00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:53,910 Right. 381 00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:58,529 I have to tell them, "Hey, person from company A, your employee ended up in this hospital 382 00:15:58,529 --> 00:15:59,600 because he was hurt.” 383 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,600 Uh-hmm. 384 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,899 So, those, kind of, things are how we plug into their team. 385 00:16:03,899 --> 00:16:05,160 And we coordinate in advance. 386 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,329 Where are we going to send them once they get out of the rocket, what's going on, what's 387 00:16:09,329 --> 00:16:14,110 the weather, what are the conditions, can we go back in or can't we go back in? 388 00:16:14,110 --> 00:16:19,639 All those kind of things are discussed as part of the team and that's one aspect. 389 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:25,399 Also on -- in my job bucket is if we have what we call a pad abort or SpaceX calls it 390 00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:31,150 a pad escape, where you have to essentially jettison the capsule. 391 00:16:31,150 --> 00:16:34,000 It's like an ejection seat but the whole capsule goes with you. 392 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000 Right. 393 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,290 So, on a day like that and the capsule ends up out over the water, floating in the ocean 394 00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:42,910 off the coast, it's up to us to deploy rescue forces. 395 00:16:42,910 --> 00:16:47,222 We work with the Department of Defense and we send out helicopters with a pair of rescue 396 00:16:47,222 --> 00:16:50,980 jumpers to jump out, open the hatch, get the crew out of there. 397 00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:54,170 And if they're injured in some fashion, they take them off to hospitals and medevac come 398 00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:55,170 out. 399 00:16:55,170 --> 00:16:58,089 So, that part of the rescue responses are us, too. 400 00:16:58,089 --> 00:16:59,579 So, that's where the title. 401 00:16:59,579 --> 00:17:04,799 Right now, I'm the -- that function on launch day is called the Launch Rescue Director. 402 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,579 And so that is my function on the day of launch. 403 00:17:08,579 --> 00:17:09,579 Okay. 404 00:17:09,579 --> 00:17:11,030 It's an interesting job. 405 00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:16,510 A few minutes ago, you, kind of, mentioned the fact that this is a very different process 406 00:17:16,510 --> 00:17:20,420 than back with shuttle, when it was just, kind of, NASA doing the space shuttle thing. 407 00:17:20,420 --> 00:17:25,120 Can you, kind of, give me a couple highlights of how is this different? 408 00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:30,450 Because ultimately we're kind of working arm-and-arm with Boeing, is my understanding, whereas 409 00:17:30,450 --> 00:17:33,660 with the Space Shuttle program NASA -- it was really NASA's program that we owned. 410 00:17:33,660 --> 00:17:37,240 So, practically speaking, how is that playing out differently for you? 411 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,040 Well, back in the day, when I was in the test director's office, the test director ran the 412 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,380 countdown. 413 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:47,890 The test director was also the launch rescue -- landing and recovery director, which was 414 00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:51,990 their alternate -- one of the alternate jobs that we also had. 415 00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:56,920 And everything from running the count, to doing the evacuation, to handling the wounded, 416 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,270 to medevac-ing them off to the hospitals, or if we ended up in the water, that was our 417 00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:05,390 launch rescue director back, then. 418 00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:09,010 If we ended up having to do a return to launch site because with a winged vehicle, we have 419 00:18:09,010 --> 00:18:13,840 that option, we could fly back, that was launch rescue director's job to set that up. 420 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,940 If we ended up landing overseas because our engine snuffed out, that was the launch rescue 421 00:18:17,940 --> 00:18:24,370 director's job to do or the landing and recovery director at that time. 422 00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:27,880 And if we ended up anywhere we shouldn't have ended up, in the middle of the woods somewhere 423 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:28,880 where no vehicle-- 424 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:29,880 Sure. 425 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,110 It was their job to go pick all that up. 426 00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:33,780 Now, we share those duties with our-- 427 00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:34,780 Okay. 428 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:35,780 --provider. 429 00:18:35,780 --> 00:18:41,460 For scenarios where we land, where we're supposed to land, the provider is there to handle all 430 00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:43,410 of that, not NASA. 431 00:18:43,410 --> 00:18:50,000 If we land, maybe, not quite where we intended to land but near, well, the provider's resources 432 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,310 are there and we give them the lead on that. 433 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:56,050 Although, we go assist because it's off nominal. 434 00:18:56,050 --> 00:18:57,050 Okay. 435 00:18:57,050 --> 00:19:01,600 If we land in the middle of the ocean, though, not in the designated landing areas, then 436 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,860 that becomes a rescue operation and NASA takes that into our own hands because we have the 437 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:06,940 resources to do that. 438 00:19:06,940 --> 00:19:09,850 Where the providers don't necessarily have that. 439 00:19:09,850 --> 00:19:10,850 Uh-hmm. 440 00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:14,510 And would you point to us being a federal agency as the primary thing there, because 441 00:19:14,510 --> 00:19:17,030 ultimately, like, we can, kind of, pull on the rest of the federal government to, kind 442 00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:19,650 of, jump in and help out, which I think is what we do ultimately. 443 00:19:19,650 --> 00:19:20,720 Precisely, yeah. 444 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,820 We have the ability to go to pull on our Department of Defense or other law enforcement, and coast 445 00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:34,140 guard, and miscellaneous, other Federal or State resources to go provide rescue assistance. 446 00:19:34,140 --> 00:19:39,070 In fact if it lands overseas somewhere, we can call on the State Department and get foreign 447 00:19:39,070 --> 00:19:40,540 militaries forces-- 448 00:19:40,540 --> 00:19:41,540 Wow. 449 00:19:41,540 --> 00:19:42,540 --to help us out. 450 00:19:42,540 --> 00:19:43,540 So-- 451 00:19:43,540 --> 00:19:44,860 Are you thinking through that kind of stuff, too? 452 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:46,790 That fortunately is another group but yes. 453 00:19:46,790 --> 00:19:47,790 [ Laughing ] 454 00:19:47,790 --> 00:19:48,790 Yeah. 455 00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:49,790 That's a lot more. 456 00:19:49,790 --> 00:19:50,790 Somebody else's job, finally. 457 00:19:50,790 --> 00:19:51,790 [ Laughing ] 458 00:19:51,790 --> 00:19:52,790 Yes. 459 00:19:52,790 --> 00:19:56,049 That becomes somebody else's job but we have -- for example, we fly -- our profile for 460 00:19:56,049 --> 00:20:01,080 the space station takes us, kind of, up the coast over Newfoundland and then over near 461 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,080 Ireland. 462 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,080 Sure. 463 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:08,620 If we were to fall into the ocean for some reason near Ireland, we'd call on their Department 464 00:20:08,620 --> 00:20:12,500 of Defense to help us out, because they have rescue helicopters, and jets, and other such 465 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:13,500 things. 466 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:17,500 So, we go to the State Department -- we'd go first to our Department of Defense. 467 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:19,570 We would go to the State Department, ask for assistance. 468 00:20:19,570 --> 00:20:24,220 They’d contact our counterparts across the sea, they would go respond. 469 00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:29,770 If we end up in some middle of nowhere and there are no other foreign agencies, then, 470 00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:31,690 we'll take what's called the ship of opportunity. 471 00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:34,960 Who's out there, who can go provide aid and rescue if need be. 472 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:35,960 Yeah. 473 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:36,960 And we send them instructions. 474 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:37,960 This is how you open the hatch. 475 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:38,960 Wow. 476 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:39,960 This is what you have to be careful with. 477 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,010 Please take care of my guys. 478 00:20:41,010 --> 00:20:42,010 Yeah. 479 00:20:42,010 --> 00:20:46,620 So, there's all that planning and scenario. 480 00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:52,419 We do have also aircrafts staged out of South Carolina and Hawaii, so that if we end up 481 00:20:52,419 --> 00:20:56,840 anywhere in the Atlantic, we can fly a large transport aircraft to where they are within 482 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,960 a couple hours. 483 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,990 Drop rescue jumpers out the back, drop inflatable boats, and other miscellaneous things to have 484 00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:05,220 at least a floating island-- 485 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:06,220 Sure. 486 00:21:06,220 --> 00:21:07,350 --of aid. 487 00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:08,350 Sure. 488 00:21:08,350 --> 00:21:11,159 And then, we send whichever the nearest ship is to go help them out. 489 00:21:11,159 --> 00:21:14,120 The same in the Pacific, if we end up out there, we do the same thing. 490 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:15,850 There's an aircraft staged out there. 491 00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:17,400 So, there's a lot of planning-- 492 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,400 Yeah. 493 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,470 --and it's a lot of coordination in advance. 494 00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:21,470 Yeah. 495 00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:24,110 And hopefully, you'll never ever, ever need this. 496 00:21:24,110 --> 00:21:25,110 Yes. 497 00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:32,400 But you still got to practice, and you still got to have the resources in place, and you 498 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,510 have to convince people that they need this. 499 00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:39,370 Steve, the commercial crew program has been in motion for about eight years now, and it's 500 00:21:39,370 --> 00:21:41,040 been a lot of hard work. 501 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:46,860 What's the feeling of the entire team, kind of, as you're involved in this day-to-day 502 00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:55,000 -- obviously, you haven't flown the Starliner yet into space, and so that's still coming. 503 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,900 How's the team -- like, what's that feeling? 504 00:21:57,900 --> 00:21:59,780 What's that atmosphere like? 505 00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:03,730 Well, you know that feeling you get when you have a final the next day? 506 00:22:03,730 --> 00:22:05,030 Stress, usually? 507 00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:06,030 Yeah. 508 00:22:06,030 --> 00:22:07,030 Yeah? 509 00:22:07,030 --> 00:22:08,030 That feeling. 510 00:22:08,030 --> 00:22:09,030 Urgency? 511 00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:12,490 Urgency, stress, am I ready, have we done everything, have I studied everything there 512 00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:14,330 is to study. 513 00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:15,740 That is looming over the horizon. 514 00:22:15,740 --> 00:22:18,800 You know, we know that we're getting very close. 515 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,270 We've done everything -- we know everything behind us is complete. 516 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:25,179 And all the T's are crossed and the eyes are dotted, like they should be. 517 00:22:25,179 --> 00:22:28,880 There's still a lot of work ahead of us that we have to get done in what appears to be 518 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,140 a shorter and shorter time because the calendar doesn't stop for us. 519 00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:33,140 Sure. 520 00:22:33,140 --> 00:22:38,159 It just keeps going whether we're finish or not, and we're shooting for a target date. 521 00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:40,950 That's always been the case with the rockets, you pick a date and you say, we're going to 522 00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:43,530 be ready then, you know, and sometimes you are-- 523 00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:44,530 Sure. 524 00:22:44,530 --> 00:22:45,660 --sometimes you're not. 525 00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:53,900 But in this case, we have a pretty good feeling that we're going to get there and it's happening 526 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:58,840 within the next months or so for us, a little over a month. 527 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,169 There's still a lot of wickets we have to jump through. 528 00:23:03,169 --> 00:23:09,810 It's kind of difficult to keep the pace that we have been keeping because everything has 529 00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:11,170 to be finished. 530 00:23:11,170 --> 00:23:12,170 Yeah. 531 00:23:12,170 --> 00:23:15,620 And we have to get comfortable with everything and everything has to work right between now 532 00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:21,420 and then, because if anything goes funny, then it inserts questions and uncertainty 533 00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:22,970 into the schedule and we don't know. 534 00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:23,970 Sure. 535 00:23:23,970 --> 00:23:29,460 But if everything works as planned between now and then, and we knock out all our scheduled 536 00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:33,610 activities as we have, we're going to get there. 537 00:23:33,610 --> 00:23:37,780 And it's -- we're going to get across that finish line having not much left to give because 538 00:23:37,780 --> 00:23:39,740 we're going to give it all we got getting there. 539 00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:43,910 It's just like a runner, they say, "Don't save it for after the race. 540 00:23:43,910 --> 00:23:45,410 Use it up while you're there.” 541 00:23:45,410 --> 00:23:46,410 Right. 542 00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:47,410 And get through the finish line. 543 00:23:47,410 --> 00:23:48,410 Time for a final. 544 00:23:48,410 --> 00:23:49,799 It's time for the sprint at the end. 545 00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:55,480 So, we're getting ready for that last sprint and I'm very much looking forward to getting 546 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,730 our launch in the air and seeing the results of all those years of hard work pay off. 547 00:24:00,730 --> 00:24:04,470 And as we approach launch date, how are you feeling about it? 548 00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:08,250 I'm -- it's kind of interesting and I got mixed feelings. 549 00:24:08,250 --> 00:24:10,779 You know, yes, I'm nervous because, yeah, I'm going to have to perform. 550 00:24:10,779 --> 00:24:15,169 I might have to have a bad day and be there and be crisp and be right because there-- 551 00:24:15,169 --> 00:24:16,169 Yeah. 552 00:24:16,169 --> 00:24:19,350 --are people in that ship who are counting on me or there are people on that pad who 553 00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:24,200 are counting on me to have their back. 554 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,080 On the other side, we've been practicing this and developing these procedures for a couple 555 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,220 of years now. 556 00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:31,110 And we think we got it down. 557 00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:33,150 Obviously, there's always room for improvement. 558 00:24:33,150 --> 00:24:36,220 But we think we're in the 90 some percent ready stage. 559 00:24:36,220 --> 00:24:42,480 So, I -- if it were to happen, we could deal with it. 560 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,299 Of course, the nervousness is still there. 561 00:24:47,299 --> 00:24:50,730 As -- again, kind of, factoring in the humanity of this whole thing. 562 00:24:50,730 --> 00:24:52,080 That's perfectly understandable. 563 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,870 So, this coming -- upcoming flight, the Orbital Flight Test is un-crewed and then will be 564 00:24:56,870 --> 00:25:00,580 followed sometime thereafter by the Crewed Flight Test. 565 00:25:00,580 --> 00:25:05,091 And I believe, I heard you had a interesting story with one of the crew members, Boeing 566 00:25:05,091 --> 00:25:06,600 astronaut Chris Ferguson. 567 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:07,669 I've heard there's some good stories. 568 00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:10,299 You guys have worked together in the past, is that true? 569 00:25:10,299 --> 00:25:11,299 Yes. 570 00:25:11,299 --> 00:25:14,059 He and I went to flight school together back in the Navy. 571 00:25:14,059 --> 00:25:20,320 We were in the same training squadron for F-14's back in 1986. 572 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,690 And we go way back. 573 00:25:22,690 --> 00:25:28,730 We have some embarrassing pictures of ourselves that every now and again, I'll drag out and 574 00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:30,070 we get a chuckle out of. 575 00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:31,070 [ Chuckles ] 576 00:25:31,070 --> 00:25:32,070 Very good. 577 00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:33,299 So, yeah, it seems like there -- this is a big world. 578 00:25:33,299 --> 00:25:37,350 There's a lot going on but it seems like it can be a pretty small world as well as this 579 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:41,120 paths kind of come and go and across each other unexpectedly. 580 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:42,710 That's a true statement. 581 00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:48,909 I -- the people who love this job as much as we do, tend to stick to around and they 582 00:25:48,909 --> 00:25:53,570 feel great ownership and responsibility for what they're doing. 583 00:25:53,570 --> 00:26:00,770 I have never seen anywhere else that but here, that level of dedication and focus on the 584 00:26:00,770 --> 00:26:01,770 mission. 585 00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:05,660 I mean, I -- I've had military background and I've had other such things but here, more 586 00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:11,640 than anywhere else, I see everybody pulling in the same direction and they don't want 587 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,360 to be the person that fails. 588 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:17,820 They -- and not because they don't want to be seen as failing but because they don't 589 00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:19,610 want to fail their buddies. 590 00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:25,289 They know that we have friends on those ships and everybody is counting on them and you 591 00:26:25,289 --> 00:26:27,400 don't want to let your friends down. 592 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,150 You find that in the best organizations and I'm sure you see that in your Navy Seals and 593 00:26:31,150 --> 00:26:33,140 other such folks like that. 594 00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:36,131 Where you know they're counting on you and you will do your darndest not to let them 595 00:26:36,131 --> 00:26:37,150 down. 596 00:26:37,150 --> 00:26:38,170 Yeah. 597 00:26:38,170 --> 00:26:42,600 As I look at the Commercial Crew Program from outside, that is what I continue to see time 598 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:48,529 and time again of long hours, hard days, lots of effort, all kind of with that goal in my 599 00:26:48,529 --> 00:26:49,529 mind. 600 00:26:49,529 --> 00:26:53,279 So, Steve, appreciate you being here and I hope very much that on launch day, you are 601 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:56,960 incredibly bored and have very little to do. 602 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,380 I hope for the same. 603 00:26:58,380 --> 00:26:59,500 Thank you. 604 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:00,500 [ Music ] 605 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,960 The overall flight test is major step on the road certification. 606 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,130 Here is Gennaro Caliendo with more. 607 00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:11,720 I'm in the booth now with Gennaro Caliendo, who -- let me see if I get this right here. 608 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,720 Uh-hmm. 609 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,640 The Certification Manager for the Boeing Starliner or I think, you might have said that there 610 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,270 is more two than just Starliner. 611 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:20,270 Correct. 612 00:27:20,270 --> 00:27:23,309 There's two pieces of it or actually there's more than two pieces but you've got the Starliner 613 00:27:23,309 --> 00:27:27,090 which sits on top of the Atlas V, which its launch vehicle. 614 00:27:27,090 --> 00:27:30,260 The two together form the whole part of the system. 615 00:27:30,260 --> 00:27:35,299 Of course, the system includes ground -- the ground processing equipment, as well as the 616 00:27:35,299 --> 00:27:39,070 launch system and it's all included and that's what we certify. 617 00:27:39,070 --> 00:27:43,760 We don't certify just the Starliner, we don't just the Atlas V. It's the entire system. 618 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,760 Yeah. 619 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:45,760 And I think-- 620 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,760 From start to finish. 621 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:47,760 I think that's a great point. 622 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,190 And I appreciate you bringing that up just because people, when they think of a rocket 623 00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:51,070 launch, they typically only think of the rocket. 624 00:27:51,070 --> 00:27:52,070 Uh-hmm. 625 00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:56,760 But ultimately, there's a ton of work on the ground to be able to fuel, and process, and 626 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,620 handle, and support all the aspects-- 627 00:27:58,620 --> 00:27:59,620 Correct. 628 00:27:59,620 --> 00:28:02,649 --of launch and then, even the emergencies that are -- that might be encountered. 629 00:28:04,649 --> 00:28:03,649 Right. 630 00:28:04,649 --> 00:28:10,540 And for instance at Pad 41, where the Atlas V is going to launch from, we actually worked 631 00:28:10,540 --> 00:28:14,429 with the commercial provider and in this case, it was Boeing. 632 00:28:14,429 --> 00:28:19,460 Through their subcontractor, ULA, United Launch Alliance, which launches the Atlas V for Boeing, 633 00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:22,010 to create a system whereby we can access it. 634 00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:25,899 You know, the 41 has been there forever and it's been used predominantly for unmanned 635 00:28:25,899 --> 00:28:34,080 satellites and interplanetary, kind of, missions, ULA's used to over the years for commercial 636 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,460 as well as NASA missions, as well as DOD missions. 637 00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:39,460 And so we have to— 638 00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:40,460 Sure-- 639 00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:43,270 So they had to actually modify it to support launching crews and that meant, building a 640 00:28:43,270 --> 00:28:47,059 big tower, so if anybody goes out there, you'll see those big towers that allows the crews 641 00:28:47,059 --> 00:28:54,390 to actually climb up to the top and ingress the CST 100, which sits on top of the vehicle. 642 00:28:54,390 --> 00:28:56,950 As well as provide for any emergencies. 643 00:28:56,950 --> 00:29:00,960 Those are in our requirements and I guess, we can talk about requirements here to allow 644 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,490 the crews to get off in emergency. 645 00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:07,909 For those who have seen the Shuttles fly, you may have seen some of the emergency systems 646 00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:09,450 that were out at the launch pad. 647 00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:10,450 Right. 648 00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:14,070 They're installing or have installed something very similar to that but it also has a kind 649 00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:19,520 of a flavor of if you've ever taken these -- I'm trying to think of the word, this, 650 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,520 sort of, rides. 651 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:21,520 The zip line? 652 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:22,520 Zip lines. 653 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:23,520 Kind of rides, yeah. 654 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,520 And things like that. 655 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,520 Thank you. 656 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,520 Similar but different. 657 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:27,900 Similar but different because their role is different, obviously. 658 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:28,900 Sure. 659 00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:32,100 Again, in the way of an emergency, they actually put one of those zip line systems where people 660 00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:34,220 can escape in an emergency. 661 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:39,299 That would mean the flight crews as well as ground crews that are out there and they can 662 00:29:39,299 --> 00:29:43,980 transport them very quickly from that level down to the ground and then into protective 663 00:29:43,980 --> 00:29:47,929 vehicles until the emergency passes or they can drive themselves out. 664 00:29:47,929 --> 00:29:52,679 Those emergency vehicles are ones that, actually, we provide to them as a government provided 665 00:29:52,679 --> 00:29:55,059 service or government provided equipment. 666 00:29:55,059 --> 00:30:01,309 It's the same vehicles that we use for, I think, it's Constellation -- Exploration now, 667 00:30:01,309 --> 00:30:02,309 right. 668 00:30:02,309 --> 00:30:03,309 Not Constellation, it’s the old word. 669 00:30:03,309 --> 00:30:04,309 Yeah, EGS? 670 00:30:04,309 --> 00:30:05,309 Yeah, EGS. 671 00:30:07,309 --> 00:30:06,309 Yeah. 672 00:30:07,309 --> 00:30:08,309 So -- and I want kind of back track because your title is Certification Manager. 673 00:30:08,309 --> 00:30:09,309 Correct. 674 00:30:09,309 --> 00:30:11,929 And, so, I've heard the phrase thrown around burning down paper. 675 00:30:11,929 --> 00:30:12,929 Uh-hmm. 676 00:30:12,929 --> 00:30:15,510 When I first say that we're not actually lighting paper on fire, right? 677 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:16,510 Correct. 678 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:18,510 Okay. 679 00:30:18,510 --> 00:30:19,510 So we're not-- 680 00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:20,510 That's absolutely correct. 681 00:30:20,510 --> 00:30:21,510 We're not burning paperwork here but this is a phrase— 682 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:22,510 Right. 683 00:30:22,510 --> 00:30:23,510 --we use. 684 00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:24,510 So, can you, kind of, talk about what does that mean and, kind of, as a Certification 685 00:30:24,510 --> 00:30:25,510 Manager, what's your job? 686 00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:26,640 So, my job is to lead a small team on the NASA side. 687 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,340 You know, the thing about certification is in the commercial world that has a slightly 688 00:30:31,340 --> 00:30:33,020 different flavor for us as NASA people. 689 00:30:33,020 --> 00:30:37,049 In the past, we had a set of requirements that we used to call level one or very high 690 00:30:37,049 --> 00:30:39,240 level requirements. 691 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,039 And then, we would create sub tier requirements or level two, and three, and four. 692 00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:45,039 Okay. 693 00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:46,610 That would actually decompose a top level requirement. 694 00:30:46,610 --> 00:30:53,570 So, for instance if you said, which we do today, transport for people to the station 695 00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:56,409 and return them safely home, that would be your top level requirement. 696 00:30:56,409 --> 00:30:57,409 Okay. 697 00:30:57,409 --> 00:31:01,919 And then, what we would do, ordinarily, if it was a heritage NASA program, we would -- we 698 00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:05,539 would take that top level requirement and we would decompose it down into components, 699 00:31:05,539 --> 00:31:07,250 pieces, parts of that. 700 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:10,630 In this world, in commercial, we leave it at the high level and we let the provider 701 00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:11,990 actually decompose it. 702 00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:16,669 Now, that particular requirement it's -- in itself, we give them -- we give the commercial 703 00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:20,740 providers some flavor of what we expect in there but we leave it up to the provider to 704 00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:21,909 actually decompose it. 705 00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:25,280 So, in that particular one, well, it sounds like transport crew and return them safely 706 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,000 seems very, very generic. 707 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,350 There are words within our requirements set that says this is what we expect it to be. 708 00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:37,100 In that case, it's all about ascent trajectories, and entry trajectories, entry descent and 709 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:38,540 landing, and rendezvous and docking. 710 00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:39,590 It's all part of that. 711 00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:43,549 And so the commercial provider then provides the details behind all of that. 712 00:31:43,549 --> 00:31:48,190 When we say burning down paper, what we mean is the contractor, in this case Boeing, in 713 00:31:48,190 --> 00:31:53,100 my case Boeing will supply the evidence, the actual physical documentation. 714 00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:57,899 Now, you know, we're living in a new, sort of, millennium and paper is an abstract kind 715 00:31:57,899 --> 00:31:58,899 of thing-- 716 00:31:58,899 --> 00:31:59,899 Sure. 717 00:31:59,899 --> 00:32:00,899 So-- 718 00:32:00,899 --> 00:32:01,899 Yeah, even paper is a fluid term-- 719 00:32:01,899 --> 00:32:02,899 Even paper is, kind of, a fluid term. 720 00:32:02,899 --> 00:32:03,899 Right. 721 00:32:03,899 --> 00:32:04,899 So, they deliver a lot of this electronically to us. 722 00:32:04,899 --> 00:32:05,899 Sure. 723 00:32:05,899 --> 00:32:09,440 And we review it electronically and we look to see if meets the intent of what we were 724 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,440 doing. 725 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:16,910 So, in a test flight world where we are today, not all the requirements are active or required 726 00:32:16,910 --> 00:32:18,169 for a particular test flight. 727 00:32:18,169 --> 00:32:19,169 So-- 728 00:32:19,169 --> 00:32:20,169 Give me for instance. 729 00:32:20,169 --> 00:32:21,169 What does that mean? 730 00:32:21,169 --> 00:32:27,840 So, we have approximately -- there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 requirements that 731 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:34,080 we said these are safety in performance requirements that are out there for Boeing, in this case 732 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,670 to meet. 733 00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:36,670 Is that like the tier one level? 734 00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:37,670 Yeah. 735 00:32:37,670 --> 00:32:38,670 Two hundred and eighty of those? 736 00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:39,670 Two hundred and eighty of those. 737 00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:40,670 And then, they have-- 738 00:32:40,670 --> 00:32:41,670 Okay. 739 00:32:41,670 --> 00:32:45,440 --an additional somewhere in the neighborhood of close to 500 and change of performance 740 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,620 from the safety requirements that are required to fly to the ISS. 741 00:32:49,620 --> 00:32:52,990 Those would be our international space station programs requirements. 742 00:32:52,990 --> 00:32:53,990 Okay. 743 00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:59,260 So, between the two, we have approximately, almost nearly 800 total requirements that 744 00:32:59,260 --> 00:33:03,760 they have to satisfy, which may sound like a lot to most people but when you think about 745 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,650 it and you compare it to some of the other programs, they're probably -- those requirements 746 00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:09,149 are then decomposed into-- 747 00:33:09,149 --> 00:33:10,149 Sure. 748 00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:12,220 --thousands of smaller lower level requirements. 749 00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:13,220 Right. 750 00:33:13,220 --> 00:33:19,960 We don't necessarily require the decomposition at our level, but we do require them to decompose 751 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,929 them and then roll them back up for us. 752 00:33:21,929 --> 00:33:23,149 All right? 753 00:33:23,149 --> 00:33:24,659 So, when you talk about this because-- 754 00:33:24,659 --> 00:33:25,659 Uh-hmm. 755 00:33:25,659 --> 00:33:28,190 --kind of, you made this point of, like, in a heritage program, which I think is a great 756 00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:29,190 way to describe it. 757 00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:30,190 Uh-hmm. 758 00:33:30,190 --> 00:33:32,740 You have, maybe, thousands more requirements as a part of it. 759 00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:37,470 So, does that really make our job easier or does it make our job harder because I could, 760 00:33:37,470 --> 00:33:40,590 kind of, see that going either way because we're a little bit more hands off. 761 00:33:40,590 --> 00:33:41,590 Right. 762 00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:44,260 So, yeah, Josh, that's a really good question. 763 00:33:44,260 --> 00:33:48,120 In some cases, it makes it easier and in some other cases, it does make it much more difficult 764 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,809 because you leave it up to the provider to figure it out and then you have our people, 765 00:33:53,809 --> 00:33:58,169 which have a lot of heritage history, and so they have certain expectations of what 766 00:33:58,169 --> 00:33:59,200 needs to be delivered. 767 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,580 So, there's a lot of give and take that goes along with that-- 768 00:34:01,580 --> 00:34:02,580 Right. 769 00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:05,159 --of what we expected versus what they delivered. 770 00:34:05,159 --> 00:34:10,700 And so, sometimes those two aren't very -- they don't flow very well together. 771 00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:11,700 Sure. 772 00:34:11,700 --> 00:34:16,399 So, it's been a lot of back and forth between us and the commercial provider to figure out 773 00:34:16,399 --> 00:34:17,960 what the right level is. 774 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,760 And once we get to that right level and we're satisfied they meet the intent, then we're 775 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,610 good to go and we move on to the next one. 776 00:34:24,610 --> 00:34:31,579 Now, not all of those close to 800 requirements are required for each of these test flights. 777 00:34:31,579 --> 00:34:35,470 So, we have a sub-tear of those -- subset of those that are required. 778 00:34:35,470 --> 00:34:37,450 What we call the minimum requirements. 779 00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:41,149 In the case of space station, that's mostly all of them. 780 00:34:41,149 --> 00:34:42,149 Yeah. 781 00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:43,149 [ Laughing ] 782 00:34:43,149 --> 00:34:44,149 Because in order to approach the, the spacecraft-- 783 00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:45,260 We take very good care of the space station. 784 00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:50,220 Yeah, in the case of our requirements where you have an unmanned vehicle that's going 785 00:34:50,220 --> 00:34:55,100 to fly here, OFT, Orbital Flight Test, there's nobody onboard, there's certain subsets of 786 00:34:55,100 --> 00:35:00,480 those that we don't necessarily require to be completed, simply because you don't have 787 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,480 people onboard. 788 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:08,150 For instance, the most obvious one is a requirement that we have for launch abort or abort systems, 789 00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:09,980 not just launch abort but abort systems. 790 00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:10,980 Yeah. 791 00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:15,400 Since no one is onboard, we don't necessarily require the abort system requirement to be 792 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,400 satisfied. 793 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,400 Okay. 794 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,880 We leave that risk up to the commercial partner. 795 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,880 Okay. 796 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,619 In this particular case, I don't know if a lot of people know, but Boeing will have the 797 00:35:25,619 --> 00:35:31,210 -- they have an abort system onboard but they only have part of it actually functioning. 798 00:35:31,210 --> 00:35:32,250 And that's on the launch vehicle. 799 00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:34,440 It's the emergency detection system. 800 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:43,320 It will follow along and it will record events in the event of an abort trigger getting -- a 801 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,860 red line getting triggered. 802 00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:47,859 It will record it and -- but it won't abort the vehicle. 803 00:35:47,859 --> 00:35:48,859 Okay. 804 00:35:48,859 --> 00:35:50,800 The spacecraft itself won't have the capability to abort. 805 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,089 The big launch abort engines-- 806 00:35:52,089 --> 00:35:53,089 Okay. 807 00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:55,230 For those of you that saw the pad abort test here not too long ago. 808 00:35:55,230 --> 00:35:56,230 Yeah, great test. 809 00:35:56,230 --> 00:36:00,020 Those big engines that you saw that lit to launch the vehicle off the top, they won't 810 00:36:00,020 --> 00:36:01,250 be active on this flight. 811 00:36:01,250 --> 00:36:05,830 They -- in fact, they won't even be there for the simple reasons that it's just not 812 00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:06,830 required. 813 00:36:06,830 --> 00:36:07,830 Sure. 814 00:36:07,830 --> 00:36:12,810 But when we get to CFT, that requirement will certainly be part of the next set of requirements 815 00:36:12,810 --> 00:36:15,020 for Crewed Flight Test. 816 00:36:15,020 --> 00:36:18,300 Yeah, and before we start recording today, you made a comment to me-- 817 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:19,300 Uh-hmm. 818 00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:20,300 --which was really intriguing. 819 00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:21,300 Uh-hmm. 820 00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:23,240 That ultimately, there are these things that have to meet before we'll let you go try and 821 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:24,340 fly the space station. 822 00:36:24,340 --> 00:36:25,340 Right. 823 00:36:25,340 --> 00:36:29,839 But ultimately, those aren't actually the certification that you're really after. 824 00:36:29,839 --> 00:36:31,500 And that comes later down the road. 825 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:34,760 Can you talk more about kind of what do -- what's the -- really the end goal here? 826 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,530 Yeah, the end goal is to certify the entire system. 827 00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:38,530 All right? 828 00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:42,800 You've got a commercial crew transportation system, that's the launch vehicle, the spacecraft, 829 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:52,040 the ground systems, the personnel, the communications systems, the launch control centers, the mission 830 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,040 control centers. 831 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,780 They're all part of the entire system, not one piece of it. 832 00:36:56,780 --> 00:37:01,340 And so, ultimately these requirements that we have out there have piece parts associated 833 00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:05,420 with all of those aspects of a system. 834 00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:09,560 And so, we wind up getting to a point where we want to certify the entire end product. 835 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,740 And that's done through what we call the certification review. 836 00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:18,750 And that's typically done or in our case, it will be done post two test flights. 837 00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:23,220 And the two test flights, the first one here coming up here in December is the unmanned 838 00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:26,080 or un-crewed version of the vehicle. 839 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,690 The next one would be the crewed version sometime early next year. 840 00:37:29,690 --> 00:37:34,420 And then, post that they'll be a significant review where we look at all that data. 841 00:37:34,420 --> 00:37:39,170 We look at how the vehicles worked, and how it functioned, and how well it performed. 842 00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:43,740 And then, we'll have the final sign off which is called certification review, which means 843 00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:46,380 the system is now certified to fly. 844 00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:51,390 And then, post that, we'll have what we call a post certification missions, PCMs. 845 00:37:51,390 --> 00:37:52,390 And-- 846 00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:53,390 Awesome. 847 00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:57,740 We'll be flying the crews on a fairly regular basis to station about once every six months 848 00:37:57,740 --> 00:37:58,740 or so. 849 00:37:58,740 --> 00:37:59,740 Yeah. 850 00:37:59,740 --> 00:38:04,010 And one of the things we talked about in our office and I'm just kind of curious to get 851 00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:10,190 your thoughts on the challenges that this presents, is that at no point in history has 852 00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:11,930 anybody ever done what we’re trying to do. 853 00:38:11,930 --> 00:38:12,930 Correct. 854 00:38:12,930 --> 00:38:16,280 Because we're -- people probably -- they may not realize that we're marrying commercial 855 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,310 and government in a way that this has never happened before. 856 00:38:19,310 --> 00:38:20,310 Right. 857 00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:21,480 Do you guys feel that? 858 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,609 Is that something that's like, feels like, an impossible hurdle? 859 00:38:24,609 --> 00:38:27,400 Is it just like, "Hey, like, this is a cool challenge to undertake?” 860 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,290 What's the feeling amongst you and your team? 861 00:38:29,290 --> 00:38:33,430 Oh, absolutely, it's -- some days, it's really cool to be a part of it. 862 00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:37,329 Another day is it's really, really challenging because of where a lot of us come from. 863 00:38:37,329 --> 00:38:41,420 You know, I've been in this business about 30 years, over 30 years. 864 00:38:41,420 --> 00:38:47,630 And a lot of the people I work with have a significant amount of time in this business. 865 00:38:47,630 --> 00:38:52,240 Some of us have background in shuttle, some of us had background in station, International 866 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,470 Space Station. 867 00:38:53,470 --> 00:38:58,560 Others have background in the Launch Services Program. 868 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:03,410 And then, someone like me who has a little bit of all of that, it becomes -- it's difficult 869 00:39:03,410 --> 00:39:06,700 because in all those other programs, with the exception of maybe the Launch Services 870 00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:10,510 Program because they did do some hybrid of the model we're doing now. 871 00:39:10,510 --> 00:39:11,510 We've owned the hardware. 872 00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:12,520 We've owned the requirements. 873 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:13,520 Yeah. 874 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:19,630 We've had taken all of the liability and responsibility to ensure the safety of this vehicle. 875 00:39:19,630 --> 00:39:21,960 Not to say that that's not what's going to happen here. 876 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,790 That is absolutely 100% going to happen here. 877 00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:27,329 We will ultimately make sure the vehicle is safe to fly crews. 878 00:39:27,329 --> 00:39:32,200 The difference is is where we draw the line between us and the commercial partner. 879 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:38,010 This is a true shared -- what we call a shared accountability between ourselves and the commercial 880 00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:42,671 partner, where we allow them to kind of work a lot of the down and in details. 881 00:39:42,671 --> 00:39:47,641 And we looked at the primary safety and performance requirements at the top, which is what I was 882 00:39:47,641 --> 00:39:48,910 sort of alluding to before. 883 00:39:48,910 --> 00:39:49,910 Right. 884 00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:50,910 All right. 885 00:39:50,910 --> 00:39:52,940 And so, we don't dive down nearly as deep. 886 00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:57,310 So, some days it's very challenging because of our expectations of what that is. 887 00:39:57,310 --> 00:40:02,099 And other days, it's really a lot of fun to work with these partners to see how creative 888 00:40:02,099 --> 00:40:03,099 they can get. 889 00:40:03,099 --> 00:40:05,650 Yeah, so, probably the last question for you here. 890 00:40:05,650 --> 00:40:06,650 Yeah. 891 00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:07,650 Where are you going to get to be on launch day? 892 00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:09,250 Are you working or are you just get to be a spectator? 893 00:40:09,250 --> 00:40:10,250 No. 894 00:40:10,250 --> 00:40:11,250 I’m probably going to help you guys out, I think. 895 00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:12,250 Oh, good. 896 00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:15,310 I work for the systems engineering immigration office. 897 00:40:15,310 --> 00:40:17,580 Most of our work will be done before launch day. 898 00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:18,580 Very good. 899 00:40:18,580 --> 00:40:20,700 In fact, all of it should be done before launch day. 900 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:21,700 [ Laughing ] 901 00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:24,390 And so I don't have an active role in the control centers. 902 00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:29,330 As a matter of fact, as part of the model we follow, NASA isn't really actively working 903 00:40:29,330 --> 00:40:30,330 the countdowns. 904 00:40:30,330 --> 00:40:31,330 Uh-hmm. 905 00:40:31,330 --> 00:40:32,470 They are there in a support role. 906 00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:36,210 We are certainly there in the go-no-go -- final no--go-no-go role. 907 00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:37,210 Sure. 908 00:40:37,210 --> 00:40:41,690 And then, we'll have some technical expertise that will be listening in on the nets, on 909 00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:46,210 the voice nets, and the loops to hear for any kind of issues that might be occurring 910 00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:47,600 during countdown. 911 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,690 That group of people is a very small number. 912 00:40:50,690 --> 00:40:52,079 It's not very large. 913 00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:57,460 And they will be strategically positioned in the ASOC where ULA launches the vehicle 914 00:40:57,460 --> 00:40:58,460 from. 915 00:40:58,460 --> 00:41:02,280 We'll have some people and believe it or not, mission control center Houston because the 916 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:08,380 Boeing model is actually using our NASA people to, in sort of a sub-contractor role-- 917 00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:09,380 Sure. 918 00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:12,450 --to actually fly the vehicle for them. 919 00:41:12,450 --> 00:41:17,280 They are working directly for Boeing. 920 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:18,280 Uh-hmm. 921 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,670 And so they don't necessarily work directly for us. 922 00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:21,670 However-- 923 00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:22,670 Interesting. 924 00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:23,670 --in this interesting hybrid role-- 925 00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:24,670 Yeah, [ Laughs ] 926 00:41:24,670 --> 00:41:25,680 --they do have, and own, and contain NASA badges. 927 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:26,680 Huh. 928 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,930 They are mostly NASA and NASA support contractors. 929 00:41:29,930 --> 00:41:36,060 This is kind of a unique approach for the Boeing model and it's unique for us. 930 00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:39,910 But actually, you know, in some ways, it buys down a little bit of risk because they're 931 00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:44,650 using heritage people to fly the vehicle for them in a sub-contractor role. 932 00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:47,210 Now, they ultimately answer directly to Boeing. 933 00:41:47,210 --> 00:41:48,210 And then-- 934 00:41:48,210 --> 00:41:49,210 Right. 935 00:41:49,210 --> 00:41:53,010 --we then provide through our commercial crew program the final go to actually fly to space 936 00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:55,660 station along with our ISS partners. 937 00:41:55,660 --> 00:41:59,570 It seems like every time I talk to somebody about this program, there's more complexities 938 00:41:59,570 --> 00:42:00,590 that kind of pop up. 939 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:01,590 Yeah. 940 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:05,160 Which I love and again, it just shows the resolve of our people and the commercial companies 941 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,260 were working alongside of to get the job done. 942 00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:08,260 Yeah. 943 00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:09,260 Yes. 944 00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:10,260 So, then, it absolutely is. 945 00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:14,579 And so our role is, sort of, in a much smaller oversight sort of role. 946 00:42:14,579 --> 00:42:21,250 And we're going to support the team involved from making that last minute go or final go 947 00:42:21,250 --> 00:42:26,569 to fly with a handful of people, as opposed to what you may have seen in the past with 948 00:42:26,569 --> 00:42:27,940 say the LCC over here. 949 00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:33,490 We had several hundred people and we were actively working the countdown not to say 950 00:42:33,490 --> 00:42:36,829 that Boeing/ULA won't have a similar number of people. 951 00:42:36,829 --> 00:42:38,680 Although, I don't think they'll have as many. 952 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,610 They'll just be located here in ASOC. 953 00:42:40,610 --> 00:42:42,920 They'll be located in Mission Control Center Houston. 954 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,710 And then, we'll have our people in various places looking over their shoulder and just 955 00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:50,600 making sure that everything goes as planned. 956 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,690 Those people are going to be highly experienced people that have been working closely with 957 00:42:54,690 --> 00:43:00,820 Boeing over the last -- in some cases, eight or nine years, so they understand the architecture 958 00:43:00,820 --> 00:43:01,820 very, very well. 959 00:43:01,820 --> 00:43:03,800 They understand -- they've been working very closely. 960 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,050 They understand any of the issues or concerns that have come up during the whole develop 961 00:43:08,050 --> 00:43:12,050 -- design development and test program that Boeing's gone through and we've been there 962 00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:13,680 side-by-side with them. 963 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,440 It's just not going to be a huge number. 964 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,870 My role, even though, I've been there the last eight or nine years with them, will be 965 00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:23,190 mostly done since I'm mostly the paper guy. 966 00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:24,190 [ Laughing ] 967 00:43:24,190 --> 00:43:28,210 And I'll be sitting there probably helping you guys, maybe, take some people around on 968 00:43:28,210 --> 00:43:29,210 launch day. 969 00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:30,210 Great. 970 00:43:30,210 --> 00:43:31,210 Yeah. 971 00:43:31,210 --> 00:43:32,210 Good. 972 00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:33,210 Well, Gennaro, obviously, you have a busy couple of weeks ahead of you-- 973 00:43:33,210 --> 00:43:34,210 Yeah. 974 00:43:34,210 --> 00:43:35,210 I sure do. 975 00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:36,210 So I'm going to let you get out of here. 976 00:43:36,210 --> 00:43:37,210 But I appreciate your time and we're looking forward to seeing this thing fly. 977 00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:38,210 All right. 978 00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:39,210 So am I, believe me. 979 00:43:39,210 --> 00:43:40,210 [ Laughing ] 980 00:43:40,210 --> 00:43:41,210 And so are we. 981 00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:42,390 Thanks. 982 00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:44,830 I'm Joshua Santora and that's our show. 983 00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:46,540 Thanks for stopping by the Rocket Ranch. 984 00:43:46,540 --> 00:43:51,270 And special thanks to our guests, Steve Payne and Gennaro Caliendo. 985 00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:56,000 To learn more about the Commercial Crew Program visit NASA.gov/commercial crew. 986 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,530 And to learn more about everything going on at the Kennedy Space Center go to NASA.gov/kennedy. 987 00:43:59,530 --> 00:44:05,369 Check out NASA's other podcast to learn more about what's happening at all of our centers 988 00:44:05,369 --> 00:44:08,970 at NASA.gov/podcast. 989 00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:11,569 A special shout out to our producer, John Sackman. 990 00:44:11,569 --> 00:44:14,680 Our sound engineers, Michelle Stone and Lorne Mathre. 991 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,130 Editor, Chris Chamberlain. 992 00:44:16,130 --> 00:44:20,130 And special thanks to Marie Lewis, Tori Mclendon, and Jenn Wolfinger.